Ohio UFO Notebook - No 16 - 1998

Magazine Overview

This document is a special edition of the "Ohio UFO Notebook," titled "The Testimony of Jesse Marcel, Jr.," authored by Robert J. Durant and published in 1998 by MidOhio Research Associates, Inc. It is identified as issue #16 and a "Special Edition." The publication is based on an important paper by Robert J. Durant that initially appeared in the January, February, and March 1998 issues of the MUFON UFO Journal. The purpose of this compilation is to serve as a research resource for those interested in the 1947 Roswell incident.

Introduction

The introduction explains that this special edition contains a paper by Robert J. Durant, previously published in the MUFON UFO Journal. It is presented in a single document to enhance its usefulness for researchers studying the reported crash of an alien spacecraft near Roswell, New Mexico, in 1947. For subscribers of the Ohio UFO Notebook, this article counts as half an issue, acknowledging that many may already have access to it through the MUFON UFO Journal. Issue #17 is noted as the other half of this "subscription issue."

The Testimony of Jesse Marcel, Jr.

Synopsis

The document examines the hypnotic interrogation of Dr. Jesse Marcel, Jr., aiming to demonstrate that the material he handled was not associated with a weather balloon radar target, contrary to claims made by Kent Jeffrey. It specifically addresses whether the debris was the radar target shown to the press by General Ramey in July 1947.

Introduction to the Interrogation

Kent Jeffrey's conclusion that the Roswell Event was caused by a Project Mogul balloon array is based partly on the testimony of Jesse Marcel, Jr. In July 1947, Major Jesse Marcel showed his family a collection of material gathered from the Foster Ranch. Dr. Marcel has consistently recounted his experiences over the years.

In January 1997, Kent Jeffrey arranged for Dr. Neil Hibler, a specialist in hypnosis for memory enhancement, to interrogate Dr. Marcel. Hibler's credentials include extensive work with law enforcement and federal intelligence services. An artist was present to visually record Marcel's recollections. The interrogation consisted of three sessions, each over two hours long, and was videotaped.

The author was among a few ufologists who received copies of the tapes. He viewed them carefully, noting points of vital importance to understand what Marcel was describing and, conversely, what he was not describing. The author was aware of the prevailing opinion, including that of the U.S. Air Force, that the material was a balloon-borne radar target.

Author's Preliminary Analysis and Tape Return

Shortly after viewing the tapes, the author began composing notes and a preliminary analysis to share with Jeffrey and other "insiders." However, several days later, Jeffrey abruptly requested the return of the tapes, which the author complied with, having previously agreed not to copy them. Jeffrey later stated he did not intend to release the tapes or transcripts, planning instead to use them on a network television program about Roswell, thus depriving the scholarly community of direct access.

Kent Jeffrey's Thesis

Jeffrey's thesis posits that Jesse Marcel, Jr.'s memory is key to the Roswell case. He claims there were no descriptions or memories of exotic debris, attributing this to the absence of such material. Jeffrey interprets Marcel's testimony as indicating the recovered material was "mundane" and reconcilable with debris from an ML-307 radar reflector, including foil pieces and plastic-like material. He concludes that if this was the same debris shown in General Ramey's office, the Roswell case is closed.

Author's Critique of Jeffrey's Thesis

The author argues that Jeffrey confuses two topics and misuses the terms "exotic" and "mundane." He points out that establishing extraterrestrial provenance is a complex issue, not easily resolved by simple inspection. The author also refutes Jeffrey's equation of complexity with extraterrestrial origin. Regarding the debris, the author suggests it might have been a covering or jettisoned part, not necessarily a complete craft. The core question, according to the author, is whether Dr. Marcel's testimony supports the conclusion that the material was a balloon-borne radar reflector.

The Interrogation

Hypnosis and Its Application

Dr. Hibler began by discussing hypnosis and its use in memory enhancement, noting that about 20% of the population is easily hypnotizable. He clarified that hypnosis is not a tool for ascertaining absolute truth but is useful for retrieving hidden details. Examples included recalling license plate numbers.

Marcel's State During Interrogation

Initial attempts to induce a trance were not overtly successful. Dr. Marcel appeared outwardly calm but inwardly tense and uneasy. Dr. Hibler described him as intelligent and alert, suggesting Marcel's self-reliant personality might have contributed to the difficulty in inducing a trance. By the end of the third session, Marcel seemed more relaxed and detached, though his speech patterns did not change significantly.

Questioning Process

The questioning began with vague queries and became more specific. Mr. Jeffrey and the artist also asked questions. Topics were revisited multiple times. Questioning was interspersed with hypnosis attempts and "pep talks" to relax Marcel.

The Artist's Role

An artist was present throughout the sessions, drawing from listening to Marcel's talk. Her work, which impressed Marcel, was later used to illustrate the article, though Mr. Jeffrey reportedly did not use all of her drawings.

Marcel's Recollections

Initially, Dr. Marcel had difficulty recalling details such as his or his family's attire, who woke him, or the contents of his father's car. By the final session, he recalled his father was in uniform, his mother wore a flowered bathrobe, he himself wore a plaid bathrobe and slippers, and he was awakened by his father. He also remembered items in his bedroom.

The Kitchen Floor

Upon entering the kitchen, Dr. Marcel found his parents and a collection of strange material spread on the floor. This material was categorized into three types: "foil," "I beam," and "bakelite." Dr. Marcel spent an estimated 15 to 20 minutes handling and examining the material. He attempted to reassemble the "foil" pieces, which were numerous and suggested a larger, complete form. The "foil" pieces were described as nearly weightless, not flexing, and having a dull, lead-like metallic color, comparable to circa 1947 cigarette package foil. They were devoid of markings or symbols and showed no signs of creasing or abrasion. Dr. Marcel paid close attention to the single "I beam," observing it carefully and noting "hieroglyphics" on it, which he brought to his parents' attention. He emphasized his father's excitement but could not explain its cause. His mother appeared emotionally neutral.

Major Marcel asked his son to look for electronic parts, such as resistors, capacitors, and tubes, but none were found. Dr. Marcel did not know why his father was looking for these components. After the inspection, the material was gathered and placed in a cardboard box. A small amount of shreds was left on the kitchen floor, which his mother swept into the backyard. Dr. Marcel believed these shreds were likely from the "foil" material. His father then took the box to his car, with more material on the back seat that appeared similar to what was examined in the kitchen.

Dr. Marcel was one month shy of his twelfth birthday at the time of these events. He was described as a precocious youngster who declined a scholarship to MIT to pursue a career in medicine.

The Mogul Hypothesis

The U.S. Air Force, citing work by researchers like Robert Todd and C. B. Moore, concluded that the debris in General Ramey's office was from a Project Mogul balloon array. These arrays consisted of multiple balloons lifting an instrument package and radar reflectors, described as box kites made of balsa wood and metal foil. The hypothesis suggests that rancher Mac Brazel found a Mogul array, mistaking it for a "saucer." Major Marcel, unaware of its true nature, took it to the 509th Bomb Group, leading to a press release about a "flying saucer." The next day, it was identified as a radar reflector. The narrative posits that decades later, memory issues, confabulation, and deception led to the resurgence of the "crashed spacecraft" story. Kent Jeffrey has adopted this explanation for the "Roswell Myth."

The consensus among skeptics is that a Mogul array launched on June 4, 1947, was the source of the debris. According to C. B. Moore, this array had 28 balloons, a kerosene ballast container, and three radar reflector targets, but no radiosonde transmitter.

Testing the Hypothesis

The Mogul Balloon Hypothesis is presented as falsifiable. Thanks to Jeffrey's initiative and the professionals he hired, Dr. Marcel's description of the material is detailed and reliable, allowing for comparison with known radar target characteristics. The author notes that skeptics, particularly the U.S. Air Force, have neglected to compare Marcel's testimony with an actual radar target. In July 1997, Dr. Marcel visited C. B. Moore in Socorro, New Mexico, to examine a radar target.

Marcel told Moore that the target was not what he had handled 50 years prior. The author refers to photographs of debris in General Ramey's office, taken by J. Bond Johnson, as a useful comparison point, though lacking tactile evidence. The author intends to examine the "foil," "bakelite," and "rod" from Marcel's testimony and compare them with an ML-307 radar target, relying on recollection and notes due to Jeffrey's "intransigence."

The Metal Foil

Dr. Marcel described the "foil" material as consisting of pieces of varying sizes, the largest being about four by six inches. They were nearly weightless and did not flex or deform when handled. The color was described as "lead" foil, a dull metallic color, comparable to circa 1947 cigarette package foil. Marcel was adamant that there was no paper attached and no markings or symbols on the foil. He did not observe any creasing or abrasion. The artist's depiction of a foil piece was noted but not used by Jeffrey.

Recurring Themes and Editorial Stance

The recurring themes revolve around the analysis of the Roswell incident, specifically the nature of the debris. The editorial stance, as presented by Robert J. Durant, is critical of Kent Jeffrey's interpretation and leans towards a more skeptical examination of the evidence. Durant emphasizes the importance of detailed testimony and direct comparison with known objects, such as radar reflectors, to resolve the mystery. The document highlights the challenges in establishing the provenance of unusual materials and the potential for misinterpretation or fabrication in UFO cases. The author consistently questions the narrative that the debris was definitively extraterrestrial, favoring explanations grounded in conventional technology like Project Mogul, while acknowledging the need for rigorous comparison of witness testimony with physical evidence.

This issue of UFO Magazine, dated June 1997, Volume 12 No. 3, published by Mutual UFO Network, focuses on a detailed analysis of the debris from the alleged 1947 Roswell incident. The cover headline, "The Roswell Debris: What Really Happened," and the accompanying photograph of General Ramey and Colonel DuBose holding a deformed radar reflector, set the stage for an in-depth investigation into the conflicting accounts and evidence surrounding the event.

The "Foil" Debris

The article begins by scrutinizing the testimony of Dr. Marcel regarding the "foil" material he collected. According to his account, the debris consisted of numerous small, independent pieces of paper-foil, suggesting a significant amount of material from multiple radar reflectors. The witness described the floor area occupied by the debris as roughly eight by ten feet, implying more than three radar reflectors. The author questions the Mogul hypothesis that this material, a lamination of paper and metallic foil, would naturally break into such small, differentiated pieces without adhering to each other. Dr. Marcel's description of the tearing patterns and the artist's depiction are mentioned. However, the author contrasts this with Dr. Marcel's claim that each piece was flat, with no creases, scratches, or abrasions, despite being collected from rough ground and handled extensively. The author finds it incredible that the delicate foil surface remained pristine while the target was ripped into many small pieces, the largest measuring only four by six inches.

The author then invites the reader to compare Dr. Marcel's account with photographs of the debris taken in General Ramey's office, specifically referencing the cover photograph of the June 1997 MUFON Journal. The author uses this photograph to argue against Mr. Jeffrey's interpretation of the Marcel interrogation as evidence against the anomalous nature of the Roswell Event. The author points out that the radar reflector in the photograph appears virtually intact, with universal creasing and folding, consistent with a paper-foil laminate, and not the multitude of tiny pieces described by Dr. Marcel. The author notes that the pieces in the photograph bend and flow, and that the tear patterns on the edges differ from the artist's depiction made during the Marcel interrogation.

The "I Beam"

The article then discusses a single rod found among the debris, which Dr. Marcel examined closely. He described it as about 12 to 18 inches long, three-eighths of an inch on edge, with smooth, undamaged ends and a well-defined cross-section shaped like an "I" beam. Dr. Marcel believed it was composed of metal, not wood, and noted a series of markings or "hieroglyphics" on its flat surface. The author notes that Dr. Marcel, Mr. Jeffrey, and engineer Miller Johnson later cooperated on producing plastic models of this "rod."

According to C. B. Moore, chief engineer of Project Mogul, the framework for the radar reflectors consisted of balsa wood sticks coated with "Elmer's Glue" for waterproofing and strengthening. The edges of the paper-foil were glued to these balsa members, and cellophane tape was used to strengthen the bond. The entire assembly weighed only 3½ ounces. Mr. Jeffrey suggests that Dr. Marcel mistook the glue-covered balsa wood for metal. The author tested Elmer's Glue on a balsa stick and found that it resulted in a stick that was undeniably balsa wood, with a smooth surface, but did not change its cross-section to an "I" beam.

Moore also recalls that some Project Mogul reflectors used cellophane tape with a repeating pattern of flowers embossed on its surface. This flowered pattern had no special meaning or function. The author notes that Dr. Marcel denied seeing any tape on the rod or in the material his father brought home. Searches for samples of this flowered tape were unsuccessful. The author concludes that if Dr. Marcel's testimony is taken seriously, the flowered tape is a dead issue, and his "hieroglyphics" were not the flowered tape.

Referring again to the photograph of the debris, the author notes the presence of balsa wood sticks, some covered by paper-foil, with visible daubs of black glue. There is no evidence of shadows that would be caused by an "I" beam shape, nor any flowers or markings on the sticks. The article also questions the presence of a balloon in the photograph, noting that its condition is consistent with rapid deterioration in sunlight and that the balloons were not considered part of the debris that excited Major Marcel or his son.

The "Bakelite"

The article describes another component of the debris, termed "bakelite" by Dr. Marcel. It was thin, smooth, and obviously broken from larger segments, with jagged edges. Dr. Marcel recalled no lips or structural deviations from flatness on these pieces. Bakelite was a primitive plastic used in the 1940s, known for its electrical insulating properties and ease of forming. Dr. Marcel used the term "bakelite" as his closest approximation, not a positive identification, and recalled the unusual smell produced when sawing it. The author notes that a likely source of "bakelite" could have been plastic containers for kerosene ballast, but these were egg-shaped and made of clear plexiglass, unlike the flat, opaque, coal-black "bakelite" described by Dr. Marcel. Kent Jeffrey suggests the "bakelite" was the covering of an instrument package, possibly a sonobuoy microphone and transmitter, which would be expected to have square ends and straight sides.

Irving Newton

The article introduces Warrant Officer Irving Newton, a meteorologist assigned to General Ramey's staff. Newton was interviewed by William Moore and stated that he identified the debris shown to the press as parts of a weather balloon and its radar target. He mentioned that a Major from Roswell had identified the stuff as a flying saucer, but the General was suspicious. Newton denied ever meeting Major Marcel.

However, five years later, in correspondence with Robert Todd and C. B. Moore, Newton changed his story, recalling meeting Major Marcel and that Marcel insisted the debris was from a spacecraft and that markings on the balsa wood sticks were alien hieroglyphics. The author questions why Major Marcel would violate orders to discuss this with a junior officer and reiterates that the debris Marcel brought home was not the debris in Ramey's office.

More recently, Newton told Kent Jeffrey that the symbols he saw on the balsa sticks were not on tape but were from dye that had bled through onto the stick's surface, giving a mottled appearance. This revelation, according to Jeffrey, cleared up the question of why Marcel wouldn't have recognized flower patterns on tape.

Analysis of Newton's Testimony and Tape

The author refers to the photograph of the debris on the office floor, noting the visible tape on the edges of the paper-foil, which appears to be about one inch wide and contrasts with the duller foil. This tape likely served to strengthen the bond between the paper-foil and the balsa sticks. The author questions whether there are any symbols on this tape. The article mentions that the J. Bond Johnson photographs of the debris were studied by the National Security Agency, and reportedly no "flowers" or "hieroglyphics" were found. The tape used in these radar reflectors was cellophane adhesive tape, specified for its impermeability and ability to withstand moisture and storage in damp places.

The author raises doubts about Newton's "bleed through" explanation, questioning how a printed or embossed pattern on the outer surface of tape could bleed through to the other side and adhere to the balsa wood, especially if the glue had hardened the surface to the point of being indistinguishable from metal. The author also questions why, if the dye was so unstable, it didn't bleed off earlier. The author suggests that Newton's depiction of abstract figures is contrived to resemble Dr. Marcel's "hieroglyphics" and that his figures are slightly offset, unlike the centered "hieroglyphics" Dr. Marcel described.

Dr. Marcel As A Witness

The article defends Dr. Marcel's expertise and credibility. It highlights his lifelong hobby of building model airplanes from balsa wood, suggesting he was well-equipped to judge the anomalous nature of the material. His opinion that a certain rod was metal, not balsa wood, is given respect. The author also notes Dr. Marcel's background as a radio hobbyist, indicating a technical aptitude and familiarity with various materials and processes. His detailed recall of his father's ham radio call sign, his friend's bicycle construction, and his father's car suggests a keen observational ability and a technician's mindset.

The Ramey Hoax

General Ramey's press conference is characterized as a deliberate deception. The material presented was neither what Major Marcel collected nor representative of it, and it was not the remains of a Mogul array. The debris in Ramey's office matched no witness testimony on record. The author suggests that Ramey was deceiving Army Intelligence by having Warrant Officer Newton identify the debris as a balloon and weather target, and then sending it to Colonel Marcellus Duffy, who would have immediately recognized it as an off-the-shelf reflector developed under his command during the war. This ensured that the deception would be spread within the Wright Field intelligence network.

An FBI teletype message from July 8, 1947, is cited, describing an object as a hexagonal flying disc suspended from a balloon, approximately twenty feet in diameter, resembling a high altitude weather balloon with a radar reflector.

Ambiguities Resolved

General DuBose, Ramey's Chief of Staff, is identified as the other man in the cover photograph. According to most accounts, DuBose stated that the reflector in the photograph was not the material Major Marcel brought from the Foster Ranch, resolving the ambiguity in favor of the material being switched. The "McCoy letters" are described as making no mention of crashed "discs" or debris, implying McCoy believed there was no such material. This is seen as consistent with the hoax perpetrated on Colonel Duffy. The removal of outgoing message traffic and military police records from Roswell is interpreted as a cover-up, consistent with the Ramey hoax, especially considering that Army officers later confiscated cigar box fragments of "radar target" from Bill Brazel, Mac's son.

The debris shown to reporters and sent to Wright Field likely came from White Sands, where Captain John R. Smith used single balloons with radar reflectors for V-2 rocket tests. Smith recalled his targets being reinforced with "plain" tape, not "flowered" tape.

Ambiguities Unresolved

The article concludes by posing the question of the origin and nature of the material Major Marcel showed his son. It notes that Dr. Marcel's testimony under hypnosis is not unique, and other witnesses have provided recollections of the strange debris. Bill Brazel described the debris as wood-like, possibly balsa, that wouldn't burn and couldn't be cut with a knife. Major Jesse Marcel, Sr., described a piece of "metal" that was thin as cigarette foil, inflexible, and resistant to a sledgehammer. Dr. John Kromschroeder recounted Henderson showing him a strange piece of "metal" with a different metal structure than aircraft alloys. Master Sergeant Lewis Rickett described a piece of debris that felt like metal but couldn't be plastic and didn't feel like plastic.

Recurring Themes and Editorial Stance

The recurring themes in this issue revolve around the analysis of physical evidence, the credibility of witness testimony, and the possibility of government deception in the Roswell incident. The editorial stance is critical of the official explanation and supportive of the idea that the true nature of the debris and the events of 1947 have been deliberately obscured. The article emphasizes the importance of detailed examination of physical characteristics and the inconsistencies in witness accounts to uncover the truth.

This document is page 19 from the October 1997 issue of UFO Magazine, Volume 12, Number 5. The cover headline, as indicated by the context, is "ROSWELL COVER-UP: The Air Force Lied!". The issue is priced at $4.95.

Article Excerpts and Analysis

The Debris and the Experts The text begins with a quote describing a piece of metal that was so thin it was difficult to imagine what it was. This description is attributed to an individual who was part of an air disarmament team inspecting German aircraft in Europe after the war. This individual, identified as Rickett, had a military occupational specialty in Line Chief and Air Inspection, making him an expert in aircraft systems and components. His qualifications are highlighted in relation to his assessment of the debris.

Sheridan Cavitt's Testimony Sheridan Cavitt, a retired Lieutenant Colonel with a background in counter-intelligence, is presented as a key figure in the Roswell Incident narrative. When initially questioned by researchers about the events of the Summer of 1947, Cavitt claimed ignorance and denied ever being stationed at Roswell. However, in 1994, during an Air Force investigation into the Roswell Incident, Colonel Weaver visited Cavitt. Armed with a letter from the Secretary of the Air Force that lifted secrecy restrictions, Cavitt agreed to speak. He then signed an affidavit stating that he and Marcel had found only a single rubber weather balloon and a radar reflector, and that these were located within an area no larger than 25 feet in diameter.

Unmasking the Deception The article questions whether Cavitt's affidavit answers the core issues regarding the nature and origin of the debris handled by Dr. Marcel. The author asserts that the material and the circumstances surrounding its appearance in the New Mexico desert were significant enough to instigate a "massive deception." The text emphasizes that the passage of five decades, and even the involvement of high-ranking officials like the Secretary of the Air Force, have not been sufficient to reveal the truth.

End Note and Endorsement An "End Note" provides additional context. It states that Dr. Marcel was given a pre-publication copy of this article. In a letter to the author, Dr. Marcel expressed his strong endorsement of the essay, particularly regarding the interview conducted in Washington by Dr. Neil Hibler. The note is signed by R. J. Durant and dated October 28, 1997.

Recurring Themes and Editorial Stance The recurring themes in this excerpt are the Roswell Incident, government cover-ups, military deception, and the persistent mystery surrounding unidentified aerial phenomena. The editorial stance appears to be critical of official explanations and supportive of the idea that a significant deception has been perpetrated regarding the Roswell event. The article champions the pursuit of truth and suggests that the official narrative, as presented by Cavitt's affidavit, is insufficient to explain the phenomenon.